Sunday, July 22, 2012

Brian's Story


My name is Brian Moore, I am 23 years old. I came from the Oregon City Followers of Christ Church and this is my story.

I was born into the Follower church, and by the grace of God I made it out of there. When I was very young I remember going to different churches with my family, much of my childhood I was taught that the Followers were not right in much of what they taught and believed. I was taught that we had to find a different church.

Unfortunately my father passed away when I was 14, we never found a new church home. So back into the Follower church we went, my father's passing left me with more questions than answers, I was too young to put my foot down and say no, so I had to go back into the place that I feared the most. I was a quiet kid, very fearful.

It wasn't long until I was sucked back in, and partially brainwashed, in the back of my mind there was always the concern that maybe this wasn't where I was supposed to be, not where God wanted me, so with this fear I had that they were going to confuse me about religion I didn't ask a lot of questions. I stopped reading the bible – why would I have continued? It was never a driving force in the lives of the people that I lived with, we never had any bible studies as a family in either house that I lived in, so I was away from the word for about six years.

I started listening to music and going to concerts all of the time, it was like a form of worship. Was I worshiping God with joy? No! But the band that is coming next week sure brings me joy! I was giving myself over to idolatry and had no idea! This happiness was very fleeting and empty. It was like there was something missing from my life.

I soon realized that I didn't fit in, a few of my friends started to leave, I didn't have much intention of leaving but I wasn't completely closed off to it, the fear of course was that I would go to hell if I did leave, so I decided to stay for the time being, but I still kept in contact with my friends.

One evening out of the blue I got a phone call from a Colorado area code, it was a young lady. She said, "Is so and so there?" I said, "You must have the wrong number, goodbye." She said, "Don't hang up! Talk to me." So I went along with it I talked to her for two-and-a-half hours. It ended with a pretty standard goodbye see you later. Well someone over heard me. I was caught no denying that I was talking to a "worldly girl" (gasp!). So the questioning began, "Who was that?" "Wrong number!" "For two and a half hours? Brian, what church do you go to?"

The idea that we can't have relationships with ANYONE outside of the church is taught by everyone. Sure you could make small talk with a peer or coworker, but never anything more than that. The day that I was asked the question "what church do you go to?" was the exact moment that I decided I didn't want to attend there anymore.

The shunning started because of my refusal to comply with this legalistic friend situation. I still kept in contact with them though. It took me a year longer than I wanted it to before I decided it was time for my departure, but praise the Lord I left and am now free in Christ Jesus.

I left with one scripture in mind, Mark 16:16, wow Jesus said this so it must be true. So now it was time to trust in him. I was baptized on Feb. 19th 2011 praise the Lord for this! I have taken a lot of heat for this but I am still proud!

I could never understand why they have this mind set, after all isn't Doesn't God wish for none to perish but all to come to repentance? (2 Peter 3:9)
Why they think that you have to have a special man to do it, Acts 8:36-38 do you believe with all of your heart? Then you may! Baptism is actually between the believer and God, a good conscience toward God. (1st Peter 3:21)

And of course the promise of forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit, for you and your children and all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God shall call to himself. (Acts 2:38-39)

I have tried to reach out to certain family members but it seems futile. I now see that this is because they are not used to the word of righteousness, they have barely had any milk, so the meaty teaching I would try to give them was pointless no matter how well it was put together. (Hebrews 5:13,14).

I will continue in this fight because God did send me someone, He made a way, and His name is Jesus Christ, John 14:6.

If anyone would like to contact me my email address is 
brianmoore1988@yahoo.com
Until next time may the Lord Jesus Christ bless those of you that are His, keep you and watch over you, make His face shine upon you, be gracious to you and grant you peace in Jesus name amen!

117 comments:

  1. Wow It's kind of hard to believe the same person that always sounds so simple minded in his coments wrote this. Is that a pic of Brian or just a random stoner? "HAHAHA"

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    1. Yes another caring and loving follower, spreading the loving kindness of Jesus. By calling me simple minded, do you think this will hurt me? I would rather be simple minded than have a double mind.

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    2. Brian I am sorry you lost your dad when you were so young.

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  2. Why do you think the poster wasn't just a reader of this blog? It was just an observation. You are so bitter at the followers that you think any negative coment must come from them. Maybe not simple minded, but narrow minded for sure.

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    1. The joke about me being a stoner was a pretty common thing in the follower church, how much sense would that make for someone who has never met me before to say that? Am I bitter? Not as much as I was, but why would I not be just a little bitter? They lied to me, you won't ever find anything out in the world they would say but that is quite contrary to scripture, didn't Jesus say seek and you shall find? Well what do you know! You just hang on folks because the truth is coming out! One day a Saviour will come and ask them why they deceived so many!

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  3. Who's supposed to be falling for it being anything but a follower? If its mean spirited, condescending, or a lie? It's a follower! Way to further insult a young man that sought his savior. If you people had the gumption, or wisdom to lead you young they would've stayed there. But they're leaving to seek what you will never be able to provide.

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  4. After your dad died you was there for you? Who welcomed you into their homes and lives? You repaid all the kindness you received by acting like a jerk, then leaving and now you are bitter and angry towards the people that were there in your time of need.

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    1. Yes and into there false religion! I read the bible and I am appalled at was was forced on me! These are a double minded people! Sure maybe I acted irrationally I'll admit that, I probably could have left a better way. But a person about to leave the church isn't in there right mind because of all of the propaganda being put into there minds!

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    2. My experience with wanting to leave was resistance and threats to stop me. Another girl my age ran off with a worldly man and her family let her go. I immediately began looking for my own "jailbreak marriage."

      You have to do (or say) something pretty extreme to be let out.

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  5. Brian, you never showed religion, you were always a rocker,stoner type of person. you destroyed your mother in your actions. Do you think your simple mind is smarter then 1500 people? I don't think so, we wish you well. If you think this is mean spirited, look at all of us that had charity towards you, we accepted you as you were. We are not the ones that are mean spirited, remember goats blat the loudest, the followers are living their lives, working out their salvation. If you don't like us , move on. We deserve to live as we feel its our faith, We have faith , and we see our flaws, but at the end of the day we live with faith and as much charity as we can do. The ones that left and family has no connection, you knew that when you left, so stop being bitter. Many religions are just the same, read the news. Even the Scientiologists do the same ( even though I dont follow them I read the news) We do not deserve the battering we are getting, so stop, move on. Meet your god in your way, and thats ok, but leave us alone. We are tired of the beatings we get from all. If we are not perfect, god will be our judge, we will meet him one day as you will, with faith maybe we will all make it, if we stop blogging and sniping.

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    1. I didn't show religion, your right I was a sinner before I trusted Jesus, yes other CULTS do dissown there family members you are correct! Mormonism, Scientology, Jahovah's witness, yes you guys fit in nicely with those! You all believe in a works based salvation! How could 1500 people be wrong? Haha oh you make me and my simple mind laugh! I don't know how they could be mistaken, I really don't these people who never go to the word. No matter how much kindness you show a person, it does not make up for the amount of brainwashing and lying that you guys have so cleverly disguised as religion, why is it that the people who go to the word and seek biblical answers are thought of as strange? You basically kicked people out who were having a bible study in the old church building, I heard some people say that there studying brought a bad spirit in. But after I say this some follower will fire back with some sort of propaganda to cover up for all of this, you people say that people like me have facts out of order but fail to provide where we are flawed. Also it is nearly impossible to have a strong religious drive in a place that does not have bible studies or teaching, and there isn't much of any push to read anything, someone told me that I would never pick up my bible again if I left the approved church, well guess what that was only a scare tactic!

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    2. That's what Nick told you, that he was kicked out. Just like you left for religious reasons. You guys are too much.

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    3. There isn't any reason to bring up people's names! No he didn't say that to me. I watched as the followers turned on these people because they were starting to wise up to the bondage that they were imprisoned too (spiritual bondage), how would you know why we left, yeah I bet you know exactly why this is another example of propaganda, you never hear about the people that have left and go to church once a week, only the drug attics and people who whore themselves about!

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    4. hey ... god and the devil aren't even real ... why don't you all just stop worrying about it and enjoy your lives? .. can't you see how these man made religions tear apart families? I just don't get it .....

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    5. The point is we need not to seek religion but Christ and not please the people but our Lord. Sometimes growing is a process. Growing is good but hiding behind fear of the people is non-sense. Brian is growing and that is what matters. Don't forget God judges a persons heart.

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  6. To suzanne, you said "you have to do or say something pretty extreme to be let out". First of all no one lets anyone "out". People leave by there own will all the time and no one can stop them. that being said, when someone leaves or talks about leaving family members and freinds try to encourage them to stay. The reason this happens is there family thinks that they're turning their backs on the faith. You make it sound like people are being held against there will. That is simply not the truth! Tell me what the difference is of people like you or Brian or Maggie trying to "reach out" to family that have stayed in the church to convert them to your way of thinking and reaching out to try to convince someone to stay. Either way you believe you are right and you don't want to see that member parish. I believe Christ died for my many sins as he did yours but I don't feel like ex-followers feel the same. Also please explain why you have decided to make us out to be some sort of cult. In any real cult there is someone (or many) at the top who have something to gain by there teachings. There are countless examples of this in the history of the world and of different religions. There is always some sort of leader gaining either monitary gain or phisical gradification (to be polite) in all cults historicly. Who gains by what is taught to the followers. If anything they are risking massive loss. Think about it.

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    1. Many people are there against their will, held hostage by the threat of losing their family and friends.

      What is being gained by the FOC is controlling your members and keeping them in obedience - often to their early demise. You have people who are physically suffering but are afraid of the social consequences of getting medical care. You have a young woman there who has been in a coma for some time - does she have a choice to live or die?

      Do I want to convince you to think the way I do? Not necessarily. That is not my agenda. My agenda is to shed light on the history, the why and how things came to be. I write because I am compelled by an inner force to do so. Not to persecute anyone, just to explore a topic that I feel is important and interesting.

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    2. Suzi...how many people showed up at your house once word got out that you married Randy? How many people "encouraged you to stay"? We had a total of maybe 3 if I can remember show up. A couple people called. Really? That's the encouragement one gets when no one wants them to continue to "stay".
      When no one wants you there...it's easy to leave.
      Right Brian?

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    3. Yes once you have become a misfit, it is pretty easy to disappear.

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  7. Maybe you should question what that "inner force" is. And you didn't answer the question. who gains? Who is the leader of the cult that is profiting from this following?

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    1. My "inner force" that makes me want to write? It's been there since I was a child. It's the same thing that makes other people love to go hunting, paint pictures, climb mountains, sing, etc.

      The leader of your group is dead (WW). And I did answer what is being gained = control.

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    2. Like I said befor, there is historicly always a benifit to being the leader of a cult. You say the benifit was control. Control for what gain? How did ww gain from his "control". And shouldn't the leader of a church have some sort of control? If he is a man of god approved by god don't you think he should have some sort of athority? I kind of get the impresion that you won't be controld by any man. Is that the real problem that you have with the foc? Do you have a male boss at your place of employment? Is he allowed to have any control over you or is that to much for you to handle too? If he was approved by god who should question god?

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    3. I have no problem with who WW was (from what I know). I have no problem with a pastor/preacher leading a church. I also have no problem with working with bosses/supervisors regardless of their gender.

      What is gained by controlling people with the threat of shunning/ostracism is that people are not allowed free thought. They are not free to open a Bible and discover the truth of the gospel if it disagrees with the reality of that situation.

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    4. That anwer is a joke. So now you are claiming that the people of the foc are not allowed to read their bible. Once again I ask you who benifits from this? You still are not able to give an answer. Maybe you should really examin my question. I will rephrase for you.... What is the end game of the control of the mwmbers of the foc for Walter? Was he gaining anything personaly for his "control through the threat of being shunned"? You are claiming that the benifit to him is that he was able to keep his members from fully understanding the bible. But for what gain is there? Walter wasn't gaining anything carnal by his teachings. Like I said befor there is always gain for the leader of a cult so If the foc is a cult who benifits Suzzane?

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    5. You are the one who keeps using the word "cult" not me.

      I don't have any problem with Walter. He was, by most recounts, a great minister.

      What has become of the church after he died is what is dangerous - not what happened while he was alive. People often say, you don't know what it was like because you weren't born yet. Well, I DO know what it was like growing up in the aftermath. I DO know what it's like to be told, "you believe this" etc... without a logical explanation.

      I do not claim that Walter was trying to gain anything other than souls for the Kingdom (as far as I know). What the group is doing now is clinging to fragments and controlling their loved ones' actions and beliefs with their conditional love and acceptance. If you don't show up on Thursdays and Sundays, you are out of my life, and not incidentally - you are going to Hell.

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    6. From what I "have been told" there wasn't a closed door policy when WW and the other preachers were there. It was come all hear the word. The shunning and closed doors started with the elders namely GL and RK. Not the preachers.

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  8. What are you talking about coma? Theres nobody in a coma

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    1. Yes, I just learned that is out of the coma finally, but still in bad condition - not talking clearly and unable to move half of her body. I'm pretty sure you don't want me to use her name on here.

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  9. We have no idea who you are talking about, We would like to know who this person is,

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    1. so we go to our phonebooks and look up last names...really?

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    2. why would you even still have a church phonebook of people you dont care about

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    3. "Don't care about" I love so many out there, they are the ones shunning and turning there back on s and others like me that have left.

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    4. That's a wonderful question. Why would I care? These are the people that raised me, the people that cared for me. These are my family members, my friends, as Paul puts it my kinsman. I never stopped caring. I never stopped hurting. I continue to love and care for these people. It has been said that if a house was on fire you would return for ones family. But as my family told me I have walked away from Gods church And they are done with me. They shut their affection off like a faucet. I will continue to care because that's what a person does. I love and care for all who are stuck there. All who are slaves to their family's, all who are worried on what the man beside, in front, behind think of them rather than what God thinks. I pray constantly that they are able to come to the knowledge of the truth. That Jesus came from heaven down to earth to pay the debt for sinful man. We are all sinners and have come short of

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  10. Good job being totaly wrong again Suzi. You might consider that if you are told something that is not the truth and you spread it accross the web that you have lied to the entire world. You probably should get better info befor you start telling any more lies about people that you don't know anything about. Saying that you were just repeating what you were told is not an excuse for telling lies.

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    1. Dear Anonymous,

      Feel free to set the record straight. Using your own name would be a good start for credibility.

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  11. Suzi your pants are on fire

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    1. Easy to say anything anonymously. If you think I have any reason to lie, you're wrong. Like I said, why not set the record straight. Tell your version :)

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    2. Truth is truth and a lie is a lie! Just because I know your name doesn't make your lie about there being a person in a coma more than a lie. And I never said that you made up that just to make up a storie. I simply said that you are still telling a lie even though it's not first hand. You really shouldn't tell stuff on here that you get from other exfollowers that you can't confirm. The fact remains that you lie weather or not you made it up or repeat things a lie is a lie is a lie.

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    3. so are you saying she was never in a coma, or that she is perfectly health and there was never anything wrong with her? like I said, feel free to express the truth?

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    4. So you decide to spread a lie then you want to know the truth about someone's medical history. What a joke you are.

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    5. So you decide to parse words and claim that I'm a liar, when I am not. I don't want to know someone's medical history, I want you to admit that there is no basis for calling me a liar. Someone, who was young, had a stroke (or whatever - how would you know if she never had medical care?) ... I didn't use her name ... I mentioned that there are people (such as...) suffering. Big deal. This is so typical. Rather than address the point, you blow something like the wrong word/term out of proportion and spend you days/nights calling me a liar.

      Pathetic.

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  12. Larae was NEVER IN A COMA U !! Oh my word you really want attention don't you. She is so amazing fine,she is all over town, you guys are so off its amazing. We live our life with faith not fear of a dead man. We are not a cult We are very good people that try very hard. Get on with your bitterness, stop chasing every thing you hear, wow. Nobody does this to you in your lives where you are. Brian, Maggie, there was nothing to save, so yes you never had the out pouring support, most do. This blog is so stupid I cannot believe I am even responding. You never had to stay, nobody does. There is no inner force except faith. Figure this out. And guess what you get to be left alone and meet christ in the end without all this blogging, get over it, blog about something else. For those who never knew us, we are very good people trying to live faith, we do not seek out those who left us and make them as a bad person, we live quietly the best we can. It gets so tiring listening to these blogs on all the crap thats being said. Everyone gets to stand before christ and god on their own no matter where or how they live their life, its a gamble no matter what, so live what you believe that is just fine, but the garbage blogging is so not where it is at in gods eyes.Move on people.

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    1. Dear Annonymous, can you answer me one question? How come no one ever says anything good about anyone who has left? Surely they don't all go on to be drug atticed people, theifs, whores etc. you won't ever hear "I ran into so and so and they were doing really well" it's almost as if you don't want anyone to know that you could have a good life out side of that place, seems sort of like a snake tactic wouldn't you agree?

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    2. Brian your dad passing was the best thing that ever happened to you and your mom and siblings think about how you were living!! or not living

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    3. How was I living? Maybe you can tell me something that I don't know about my own life! Why don't you go back to your hate group of Walter White Supremists that targets anyone with a different doctrine than the "acceptable one" you make people who dissagree with your church out to be monsters and herritics! You are the hate group!

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  13. Those ones are living quietly as we are trying and we let that respect stay. You only hear our frustration on those as yourselves trying to destroy how we believe. Like was said before you dont have to live like us, just leave us alone and you will be alone also. Everyone should live their life as they choose, we believe a certain way , ok, you believe a certain way, ok we don't have to be pushed your way, but your not going to change us your way. Your bitterness is frustrating, move on, you left knowing your family would not follow, so get a life and forget it.

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    1. I would like to see one biblical account of seperation for people who leave a church! But you cannot provide this, I have heard of admonishing people who live sinful lives but a person perusing Christ, this should not be! Now surely you can relate with how frustrating this must be? I have a brother in law who said he would still talk to me, but it's been a year and a half since I've seen my sister, or maybe it's that you don't like someone who comes along and tells you how it is! So you have to cover your tracks, of course you wouldn't want the rest of the world thinking that your a bunch of nuts, so you'll just discredit the people who speak out against you. There is nothing that will not be revealed just remember that followers!

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    2. I did leave. I do not believe I am bitter. I would like to have conversations with my family. I do not believe that is asking to much. There has been talk of shunning. Call it what you will but it is not biblically sound. One can withdrawal form a person who like kjv. Says walk disorderly. But I think that what is being done is not following the bible. You claim to live your life by faith, and live to be good the best you can. What I am asking is to be treated like the bible says to be done. So I should be able to have contact with my family. And so called friends. All I ask is to simply go by what the bible says to do. No more no less. We claim to read and follow the same bible. So we should have the same play book. Not different ones. Than withdrawal from
      Me biblically please.

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    3. Have you made an attempt to contact them. When people leave, they're kind of out of sight, and mind after a while. I don't know your personal situation, but you might be pleasantly surprised if you tried. Probably not though.

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    4. Yes i have tried, many times. Like the post earlier says you knew when you left what the result would be. All I am asking is if you say you are a believer and you are going to withdrawal your self. Than do with the guide lines from the bible. Not by made up rules. You know the rules.

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  14. We can back it up in the bible, but it would do no good, you will pick a fight forever. Good luck Brian we wish you well

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    1. Alright so I receive the same thing that I have spoke of before, we would show you but what difference would it make, in other words you have nothing, but what difference does it make I will always be wrong because I left the church, well good luck to you guys as well.

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    2. Shunning like it is done today at your church cannot be backed up with the bible. Of course you can twist the bible to fit about any belief, like was done with the "born holy" doctrine. Not too long ago there was a lady about seventy years old that was going to have a miracle baby. That belief took hold over many people. Where is that in the bible? That alone should make you think that maybe you are going to a cult.

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  15. If you want to be left alone at the FOC, the only thing you need to do is take your children to the doctor when they are seriously ill, but you won't, so expect to be criticized until you stop committing felonies.

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  16. I for one do not understand what Brian's problem is. I see ex-followers all the time, none of them seem angry or bitter, and yes I do speak to them if they speak to me. Brian seems to actually hate us. He claims to have found peace love and charity but no light shines from him only hatred.

    When it comes to taking children to the hospital please remember you only hear about when someone doesn't. News crews don't show up when your child goes to the doctor. Many followers are outraged when someone withholds medical treatment from their kids.

    Suzanne you have claimed honesty even though we knew you are a liar. But that was your biggest our yet. You have asked for evidence of lies you have told I think this thread reveals your lack of honesty.

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    1. There is no outrage when someone withholds medical treatment from their kids. There might be a few upset, but very, very few. If you are a current member there, you know this is true. Most people are held highly for claiming faith and denying their kids medical care. Although, it may have changed a bit because of the threat of prison. For every story in the news there are numerous more stories about sick children that suffered but did not die.

      You are the one not being honest.

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    2. How can you say there is outrage when at the criminal trials the courtroom was filled with supporters, supporting those now found guilty of manslaughter of their own child? How can you claim outrage when almost a couple of million dollars was raised through the church to pay for attorneys? How can you say there was outrage when every day of the trial there was a pot luck dinner to support those now found guilty of manslaughter or criminal negligent homicide?

      Every Sunday prayers are asked for the Hickmans in prison. I am sure they need prayers, but is this outrage? When the children were dying and there were dozens or hundreds of people praying at the child's death bed, why did the people who were outraged not call 911?

      The answer is because no one was or is outraged!

      What is outrageous is the dishonest portrayal you are trying to show here.

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    3. i met Brian about two weeks ago. i felt a light shining in him. i felt sadness too. you are wrong to judge this young man. he has a lot to offer the world and there is a light shining in him.

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  17. No 9:07 speaks the truth, in more then one topic. If Brian had found all this peace and love, we would not be a issue to him. So many leave and thats their choice and nobody is bitter on either side. Sad yes, I feel I am stooping to his level arguing on a level that he will never stop. We dont back up our bible because we do not have to, we read it, we know it, and most of all have faith with all the things that we dont understand at the moment.

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    1. No, most don't back up the things they do and believe with the bible, because what many do and believe is not in the bible. If that is wrong you would and could use the bible. The things most people believe and do is pieces and bits of what they think Walter White said and taught.

      The bible says: 1 Peter 3:15 "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear"

      So what is the reason for your hope, what is your faith in, a building? the people in the building?, what?

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    2. Just to be clear all that I wanted was for one time a "follower of Christ" to provide a biblical account for something that they believe, I do not wish to argue but just for someone to show a verse, weather it is right or wrong in my opinion, I give a person 100 times more credibility if they have something biblical to further they're belief, please do not take so much offense.

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  18. Amen to that.
    Who's pants are on fire now
    Also you never answered the question in the young woman was ever sick. You have avoided to answer that one I believe you said her name is larae. So was she sick or not

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  19. Brian I am sorry for your loss. I read this posts and felt that he really was being picked on. what does christ say about orphans?

    Suzi is telling her side of the story. that is not a lie.
    Those that are free from sin throw the first stone.
    stop picking on suzi and other wonderful people.

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    1. There is no sides of the story there is only the truth and not the truth. Believe her and the oregonian if you want to believe a lie.

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    2. There is also something called "being wrong" Suzie is always quick to make an apology, and correct any "ERRORS" that there may be. It is absurd to call her a liar every time she's not accurate.by my count she's only been wrong a couple times, where as the FOC has only been accurate a couple times. Yes, everyone is keeping score here, and lies are lies. The difference is that she makes an effort to correct hers!

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    3. This is insane. This bickering is literally crazy. I don't know much about the FOC, but what I do know is that everything is very defensive on here. Why are all of the followers so defensive if they truly believe and are solid in their foundations? Furthermore, I don't understand why the anonymous defenders of the FOC are all using poor grammar and language. Do most of them have a college education? I am not trying to be snide, but I my eight year old makes less grammatical errors than these blog comments that are ranting and raving again Suzanne and Brian. I would highly encourage the elders and parents from this organization to encourage and promote education. Perhaps the comments would be taken a little more seriously. One of the key elements of a cult is keeping its' members uneducated. This instills fear and keeps one from questioning. Good luck everyone.

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  20. anonymous, no one is making you listen to these blogs or read them. there is no need to defend what you believe. let suzi tell her story, her truth.

    you shall know them by there fruits.

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  21. i grew up in that church. i felt loved and accepted. reason was not important. love made me a believer. i was crushed when i sinned and became and outcast.

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  22. I really want to respond to the question/comments above about the FOC being or not being a 'cult'. The easiest way to do that is to look at the definition of a cult:
    A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
    The followers of such a religion or sect.

    Let's deconstruct that.

    Generally considered to be extremist or false? Yes, the FOC is 'generally considered to be extremist' due to such practices of shunning and refusing medical attention, particularly for their children, as well as their disapproval of contact other than professional of anyone not in their church. That is extreme, and it is generally accepted as such by most.

    Followers living in an unconventional manner: All of the things described above are unconventional. A church without bible study or studying the word of God? Pretty unconventional.

    "Under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader." Obviously, the point of most disagreement, since the FOC's authoritarian, charismatic leader is dead. But this is even scarier, to me. White and the 3 elders that Suzi has described are dead, but the followers still follow his/their guidance? No one else is allowed to preach because they said so? I'm pretty sure the Bible says that until Jesus returns, we are to devote ourselves to reading of scripture, teaching and preaching. But WW and the three elders said no? Sounds like leaders that are so authoritarian and charismatic that followers continue to do as they were told even after their deaths. Although personal gain for these men is not part of the definition of a cult, they most certainly gained. They gained immortality--you are still following their orders even after their deaths.

    So, by definition, the FOC is definitely a cult. Why fight that? If it is the way you believe, embrace the term, don't deny it. It is what it is.

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  23. I just wanted to tell you that I went to the wrong church for years too. They tried to teach the bible and two other books that they said went with the bible. I went to a revival at my cousin's church and was saved by God's grace too. Now we go to a church that teaches the bible only. The bible says, Do not add to or take away from these writings. Thank you for your story. As a Christian I didn't know if this was going to be a true Christian story or not. I try to watch what I read. Congratulations on joining God's family. God is an awesome God and he knows our needs before we ask. Read about more spiritual things at my blog:
    http://tracykauffman.blogspot.com/2012/05/pray-changes-things.html

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    1. Thank you Tracy for your post, I will be sure to check out your blog, it is nice to hear from other Christians on a particular subject as this.

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  24. Just a quick comment..... this is the first time I've actually took a few minutes to read through some of these comments and I must say everyone whether they go to the Followers of Christ Church or not definitely has the right to speak of whatever is on their mind because everyone has their own situation they are dealing with or has delt with but just a little fyi isn't one of the major things "at least I was told when I was watching the parents in the church be prosecuted" under no circumstance fear man!!!!! Well if that is your belief too then don't hide behind the name anonymous because obviously people do that when there is doubt in their minds about wether they should be typing the things they are typing!!!! Well the truth is anonymously or not god knows who said what!!! So people should pry just say your words in confidence with your name next to them if they feel they are saying something that they would say to god on judgment day!!!! Sorry that wasn't as short as I planned lol....

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  25. god also knows when you peek in peoples windows;)

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  26. I am glad that God does not remember your sins like man does.

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  27. Bryce, if you want people to care about your comments then you might concider posting anonymously. You know as well as I do that no person that knows you (past or present) has any respect for you and doesn't care what you have to say about anything!

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  28. WoW how great thou are
    How great thou are. Those without sin cast the first stone.

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  29. that is not true. i think a lot about bryce. thanks for posting bryce.

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  30. Check your curtains! "peekaboo"

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  31. LOL, I forgot how big of a screw up Bryce is. You should probably just try to fade away. You have brought enough shame to your family to last a life time.

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    1. Well this obviously was written by a follower, so here you go: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, (Romans 3:23) For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. For He who said, "DO NOT COMITT ADULTERY," also said, "DO NOT COMMIT MURDER." Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. (James 2:10,11) guilty of one guilty of all!

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    2. So why pick on Bryce? Because he posted? Well look to your left, then your right the next time you are at church. Look in front of you, and behind you. The church is filled with sinners. The adulterers, alcoholics, drug addicts, the dead beat dads, the thieves, the hormongers, the prideful, the envious, the lustful, but the worst is the pedophiles that still sit amongst you and your children! We are all sinners but why oh why are only certain ones called out and hauled off for what they have done? There is no logical explanation as to why there are still pedophiles, young and old sitting amongst you and your children, god’s children, dating your daughters, being in your homes. Oh yes I forgot, popularity. What is there standing in the church? What is there parents standing? No one should tolerate it. Children have been harmed. What Bryce did was foolish and shameful to his family. But don’t judge him; he will have to work it out with God not you. Maybe you should watch who your children and family are around. No where in the bible can you find that one should tolerate pedophiles. Church can be a predator’s playground if one is not careful.

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  32. So now we "call out and haul off" certain people? That's news to me... and every other person that goes to our church. You are a lier and probably a bitter ex-follower. I'll never understand why you people attack us like you do and will always stick up for anyone who use to go to church here, no matter why they left or what they are doing now.

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    1. I never said you “call out and haul off certain people” those are your words. I recollect clearly a mother molesting a young teenage boy. I know a young man molested his sister and two of his cousins. Should I continue on with the teenage boys from a couple of years ago or the step brother that molested his younger step sister or the man who molested his friend’s daughter? I am not lying; you are helping cover up truth’s that have gone on out here for years. The FOC is not as perfect or sin free as they would like the outside “worldly” people to think. They are not above anyone or live much differently than many. You should never assume anything about anyone. You know as well as I that there are adulterers, alcoholics, drug addicts, the dead beat dads, the thieves, the hormongers, the prideful, the envious, the lustful, sitting amongst you and your family. What about all the money that has went “missing” out of the women’s purses? The men who have cheated on there wives and blame the wife for not doing what the bible tells her to do. Or the women who claim a jezebel spirit made them sleep around. The men who drink and gamble. The list goes on and on of sins that happen all the time in the FOC. You are not unlike anyone out side of this building anymore. Most are not even baptized so how can they have so much faith? How do you receive faith? Through baptism! There has not been any kind of true teaching just a lot of thinks so’s and follow the leader for the last 40 years. But who is the leader? No one! It is so sad to watch people clamber to be the most popular or the guy to go to. If you do not walk with the right “people” you don’t fit in. It has been this way for years. People have slowly been pushed out for years. And to my knowledge they didn’t have a bitter bone in there body until all they could see and hear were people watching them or speaking behind there backs. This is all fact. I have heard it said more times than I can count “just wait they will leave because they can’t follow” or “They don’t feel bad for what they did, they won’t stick around” What is that suppose to mean? Truly take a look around you, you are not perfect and neither is the guy sitting next to you. And maybe when everyone can see how much help they really need and how far they have strayed from religion and “the true church” there will be mercy.

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  33. Are you a current member? If so why not try from the inside to change things? And if your not why post anonymously?

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    1. Spread the joyful news wherever man is found, whosoever will may come, lol!

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  34. Not going to answer the question?

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  35. to AnonymousAugust 14, 2012 9:27 PM

    if you are a current member than you know that any trying to change from the inside would be shunned and any "ex" member would be ignore or ridiculed.

    btw I am not the previous poster that you are addressing

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  36. To all anonymous people who leave comments and who go to the Followers church: Why do you shun your family and friends who do not wish to remain at the church? Why don't you try to convince us with love and righteousness that you are right and we are wrong? Christ used love and never turned his back on anyone. My name is Jonathan McDowell and I was a member for 37 years. I hear absolutely no love in your comments. One train of thought in reading is that people who left and did not believe were no longer welcome to church functions and ceremonies, this makes sense. To shun your family makes no sense in the simple doctrine of Christ's love. How did Christ treat the unbeliever? He continued to minister unto them and NEVER turned them away. Why would someone need to treat unbelievers with love and kindness? Answer that and you have a true answer. In my case, I truly and deeply believe in Christ's teachings. I believe he is my true and only savior BUT I do not believe that singing 9/10 songs twice a week is going to get me into heaven and that I need to go out to your building or have your approval to get into heaven either. I have made a TON of mistakes that I need forgiven for, not your forgiveness but Christ's. To shun someone is to judge them not worthy, who among you can make that call? I understand if you don't want me at your building or services because of what I just wrote, but I am still your neighbor, friend and brother.

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  37. What about father?

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  38. That too. I really miss her so much, everyday.

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  39. In the last conversation on the phone I ever had with Daisy, she asked me why I wanted to talk to her and see her. I told her that I loved her and asked her if she still loved me. She said that she loved and missed her dad, but she did not know who I was. That hurt me so much. It still hurts. I made mistakes raising her. I was in a bad marriage and angry a lot. She was caught in the middle of that and that makes me sad. She is right, in a way, that I am not the same man she knew. I am happier now, yet very sad. I am more honest with myself and others than I ever have been. I only have God to look to for acceptance, not a building full of people who have their own doctrines that they live and judge by. People who have seen me since I left, have all commented how much happier I am. I am in some ways and not in others.
    Here is a story. Once while driving to church, I was having a converstaion with Daisy about how Church used to be, I mean, how I remember it and how it was decsribed to me as being before Walter died. I was saddened that she had only been to our singing meetings. I was saddened how I had never been baptised or been to a footwashing and I was telling her all of these things. She said, Dad, we have never been to Church. That hit me like a ton of bricks. She must have been 12 or 13 at the time. She was right. That wasn't the only thing that prompted me to leave. There were many factors and if anyone is interested I would gladly talk to them about it.
    I don't pester my friends and family. They have made it perfectly clear that they no longer want me around UNLESS I come back. I ask them "come back to what?" and no one can give me an answer. I leave them alone because it is what THEY want, not what I want. That is how I was taught, to do unto others as you would have them do unto you, meaning - if people want you to leave them alone then leave them alone regardless if it is what you want. I have hope that someday, love will win out and I will get to see my family again. I just need patience, hope and forgiveness. I will never turn away anyone who wants or needs my help if I can give it. My door will always be open to my family and friends, even if they just want to come over and argue with me. At least they are communicating with me and I would feel like part of them again.
    Too much information? Oh well, I've got nothing to lose by being honest.
    In my opinion, more people would not shun family if they thought they would not be shunned from other members, family and friends from within the Church. They are being held in check by fear, judgment and emotional blackmail. A church could not have begun this way, but it has become this over time.

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  40. Give me a break John. You were abusive and compleatly insane! Your family drama is legendary, so is your karate.

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  41. And yet Jesus died for you John a sinner. Yes even me thanks for reminding me. Repent. Thanks John for sharing

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    1. Jonathan
      I am glad we have a God that if we go to him an seek forgiveness that he is faithful to forgive you and me. He rembers our sins no more, he puts them as far as the east is from the west. That's his word not mine. So we can believe that or take it to the bank. Paul through out Romans teaches us that we are ALL sinners and deserve death. ALL men have sinned and come short of GOD. The wages of sin is death. If we don't read the rest of Romans than Paul paints a bleak and dark picture for us. Than who can be saved. Mid way through Romans he teaches us that the things that I should do I do not. There is guilt with that is building, it's crushing. But then the 8th chapter finally gets there. We can get into Christ, we can be justified. But how through Christ. It is only through him that we have any good in us. Even our righteousness is but filthy rags before him. The best ten minuets of my life is not good enough or is as filthy rags before him. But through Jesus Christ I can come before him with my filthyness. Covered with the blood of the sinless, spotless lamb that was slain. For not just me of mine. But for ALL that want to except his free gift. Ahhh that beautiful 8th chapter and following. It is beautiful to read. If we stoped in the seventh chapter than we would have no hope, or we would be hopeless. It is through Jesus that my hope rests upon. Thank you Jonathan for reminding me that I to am a sinner and need the covering of Jesus. I need to be reminded of this so I don't become prideful, and high minded. Thank you for telling your story. Also remember that romans 8:28 applies. The book on your life in not finished being written. I also have family there and pray that I can hug and just simply talk to them some day.

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    2. The 6th Chapter of Romans is a positive message, give it a read, great book by the way :-)

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  43. Suzanne karate chopped that post better than Johnathan ever could

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    1. LOL, Suzanne was already gone when people found out how abbusive Jonathan is. Instead of protecting him let him feel a little shame. If he doesn't want everyone to know about his past then he shouldnt bring it up. Jon spoke of a lack of love, but he is the one that abused his wife and daughter, where was his love? I think its telling he forgot to mention father till it was pointed out.

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    2. I challenge whoever this is to actually talk to Daisy or Kathy and to get your story straight. If I was abusive, it was verbally. I slapped Daisy too hard once and cried and asked her forgiveness. I cant recall hitting Kathy but I threw her on the bed once and wrestled a phone away from her. Check those stories out. You are a spredder of lies, whoever you are.

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    3. And I never laid a hand on Janae.

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    4. Your denial is "if I was abusive" and "I can't recall"

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    5. You admit to being verbally abusive and you can't recall being physicaly abusive except for the 2 times you mention, but then you call me a liar. If you were such a good guy why were Kathy and daisy scared of you? You are just another example of someone rewriting history to try to blame your former church but the problem was always you.

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    6. You are a liar and a coward. Again ask Kathy and Daisy. Post who you are, coward. You are a bitter, sad person. What do you get out of doing this? Are you doing this out of love? Will you forgive me of these things you accuse me of? Please forgive me. I have a good relationship with Kathy now. Surprised? We respect eachother and hope eachother are happy. About fearing me, you bet they did. I was a man in the church, and no woman was going to tell me a thing. No woman was going to rule over me! My own family chastised me for letting a woman (Janae) run me, and so I went 180 degrees the wrong way. I became a domineering jerk. Funny, but there were worse than me out there. I let myself become this person, I did. I am blaming no one but myself.
      Like I said before, I was in a bad marriage and Daisy was caught in the middle. I have a lot of regrets. I was not physically abusive, and I challenge you to prove otherwise. I forgive you, whoever you are, for lying. I was verbally abusive, though.
      You, whoever is attacking me, is the type of person who will flip someone off while driving, but smile face to face. Say who you are and stick to the facts, or...better yet, drop it and get back to getting yourself into heaven. Please stop spreading hate.

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    7. What lie? You were accused of way worse things than anyone has mentioned. Only you three were there and know what really went on. I am tired of people like you rewriting history. You come on this blog and pretend to be a good guy who is better than us because you left. You might be able to convince yourself of that but we remember what really happened that caused you to leave. You are not a good guy you are a strange scary person. For the record I never said you hit anyone I said you were abusive and you have admitted that. So don't call me a liar.

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    8. I said you are a liar and a coward. Give me your email or phone number so I can ask you to forgive me properly. I left because my marriage to my lesbian wife fell apart. She is a lesbian, she told me and I am glad she is happy now. I left because of the hypocracy over Ava's death. I left because of the idiocy surrounding Sara and her pregnancy. I left because after Kathy left, I was shunned by all but my family and close friends. By then, I had lost all faith in that church. I ultimately left because I fell in love with a person who will never be accepted there because she was not born into the church. I would not give her up or lie and hide the fact I loved her, so I left. My Grandpa was dying and my family needed me, but I refused to lie no matter the timing, so I left. I am very sad about that. I am not sorry I found my wife, I wish things were different but they weren't. It was a very confusing time and I am sure I should have handled things differently. I can't change that now. Whoever has attacked me, I wish you all the happiness in the world. I hope you can get over your anger towards me. I must have hurt you too, somehow.
      For the record, I am a happier and ( hopefully) a better man, than I used to be. I think all of us hope we can be better people. I am tired of this. I said I was done, but I was wrong. Thank you to those who did not attack me and attempted to help me with words of spiritual support.

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  44. Be carfull or he might round house kick you in the face!!!

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    1. If I got beat up by a overweight midleaged man in skinny jeans and a pink shirt with a popped colar I would hang my head in shame.
      Only kidding don't kill me sensei Jonathan!

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    2. Suzanne
      I know you will consider deleting some or all of the posts. PLEASE DON'T!
      This blog needs little comic relief. Jonathan can take it and he deserves it.

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  45. Kung fu panda is going to skadoosh you if you don't stop mocking him!

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    1. It's kind of funny how this was posted on July 22 and now it's September 1st and the followers are still checking up on it to put out mean spirited comments about Johnathon and whoever else, truly rediculas!

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  46. I still can't believe you know how to read.

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  47. Sorry Suzi, and sorry Brian. I am done with this. Again, I am so sorry. This is futile and stupid what I did by writing on this sight. Brian- I am very happy for you and hope to talk to you sometime. You too Suzi.

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    1. Jon, the church you went to has always been full of gossip, unforgiving, judgmental and think they are better than everyone else. Whenever someone makes a mistake they love it because they can point to them and say at least we are not a sinner like him! Too many there just do not believe in forgiveness because they believe they are born holy and don't need it.

      Somebody above posted that "you deserve" it referring to the attacks against you but obviously does not appear to believe the bible when it says all have sinned and fallen short. The FOC is full of prideful people which has resulted in people in prison and it may end up being their downfall.

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  48. It takes a real hypocrite from the FOC to refer to anybody as abusive considering the history of the FOC. There are now six felons and one other criminal convicted of a misdemeanor. These were related to child abuse, manslaughter and criminal negligent homicide and were crimes against children. Their pride will likely cause more criminal child abusers to appear and be caught.

    The FOC story of abuse is far far greater than anything any one person did. Jesus did not like hypocrites.

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