The issue of divorce is tricky in the Christian belief system. There are certain rules in which a person may be released from marriage - if their spouse cheats, if the marriage was never consummated, or if a spouse denounces God (or in this case, the specific Oregon City FOC church) and leaves of their own accord. The problem with this is that the OC Group only allows men to be released from a cheating spouse. Also, the only people who know what really goes on behind closed doors are the husband, wife, and God. Another problem in this system is that, in order to be free, the spouses must prove themselves innocent by trashing their spouse - who is, in most cases, the mother or father of their children. Who suffers most from this? The children. Does God hate divorce? The bible tells us that He does. God hates all sin. And we have all sinned.
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
James 2:10
Please read these two letters from the preacher C.C. Smith on the subject of divorce.
* * * * *
Gerber, California
March 11, 1933
Greetings:
I read Brother George’s
letter and was surprised that he would teach as he did. I think he needs a
little teaching himself. Let us turn to the Sermon on the Mount: and when he
was set, his disciples came unto him: and he opened his mouth and taught them
saying. This is very plain that where man and wife are both in the faith there
is but two reasons for them to marry again, namely fornication or death of one
or the other.
Now let us see what
Paul was talking about 1st Cor. 7-15, he was talking to one that was
in the faith which had an unbelieving companion in other words unequally yoked
together. Now Paul says if the unbelieving depart let them depart: a brother or
sister is not under bondage in such cases. And he didn’t say if the other has
committed fornication.
First Cor. 5-5. This
speaks of the spirit that was in the man when he was born into the world. The
flesh would return to the earth as it was and the spirit return to God that
gave it. If there is any in that body who wants to turn someone over to Satan.,
tell them to be sure there is not a beam in their own eye.
I believe it would do those good who are always contentious if they would read all of the sermon on the mount. Matt 5-6, in the prayer he taught his disciples to pray: and forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors.
I was glad to hear that
Brother Walter had been preaching. I trust God will reward him. And now I
charge you that this epistle be read among all the holy brethren.
May God bless you and
yours, my earnest prayer.
Pray for us.
C.C. Smith
* * * * *
The following letter was undated, but also addressed questions about the circumstances in which divorce is permitted in the church. Smith also exhorts the church not to remove members from their body, a practice the Oregon City group has taken up in recent years, by means of shunning and pressuring others to shun.
Dear Brother and Sister
in Christ Jesus,
I just received your
letter asking for information concerning certain scriptures. You did not
mention any names. I have guessed that you refer to old sister Rogers as we
used to call her.
Now Mr. Rogers left
her. Answer: if the unbelieving depart, let them depart, a brother or sister is
not under bondage in such cases. If she was not under bondage she was free to
marry.
Then she married an old
soldier who seemed to me to be faithful. This brother died, she was no longer
his wife but his widow. If her husband be dead she is at liberty to marry who
she will only in the Lord. First Cor. 7-39.
The last man did not
marry his father’s wife but his father’s widow, and one that was free because
of his death.
As far as putting one
out of the church is a Pharisee error. If our names are on the Lamb’s Book of
Life, no man can take it off. Each one can take his own name off by evil
conduct or disobedience. Remember the wheat and the tares must grow together
until the harvest and God’s angels will separate them.
I charge that this
epistle be read to all the Holy Brethren.
May the richest
blessings from on high reside and abide with you all. Amen.
Pray for us,
C.C. Smith
Suzanne how would you know what practices this church has taken up in recent years. It's been a long time since you went there. No man or men in the church have the authority or ability to kick out a member of the church. I think you need to beware of bearing false witness against this church. you shouldn't believe everything you are told by ex-followers, or current members who may talk to you.
ReplyDeleteYou're right, I shouldn't believe everything people tell me. But the people who tell me things do not do so anonymously :)
DeleteTo clarify the point, some members of the church have been shunned into leaving for a variety of reasons. One that is particularly bothersome is when members are shunned for seeking Biblical truth.
Good job editing this section suzanne. You made a direct accusation of this church kicking out members as they seemed fit to. no you claim that you meant they were pressured out. the difference there is huge. it looks to me as if you have no problem making up lies about this church. if not why did you edit your own writting?
DeleteI see no difference between "removing a member" and corporately shunning them until they leave.
DeleteI have no intention of "making up lies" about you. Since you pointed out something you thought I misrepresented, I honored you by changing the wording.
Would you like to be a guest blogger? I would be happy to post a response/rebuttal or anything else you're interested in presenting.
The only thing she got wrong was saying it has been taken up in recent years. Rejection, shunning, gossip, etc., has been happening there for decades, not just recently. This church does reject people, all the time. There may be no formal rejection or excommunication process but the result is the same.
DeleteDivorce is a tricky subject in any religion. It has always surprised me how differently Christian churches interpret the subject. Another interesting post, Suzi. Keep it up.
ReplyDeleteTo the brave Annonymous follower who speaks of bearing false witness, you may be correct in a sense, but maybe it should in fact be used in your church, I came from that church in recent years so I know the issues of leagalism, oh you can do what you want but the old women sure would talk! "Older women likewise are to be reverent in there behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved to much wine, teaching what is good," Titus 2:3 I always pointed out the fact that they were liars! But then was told they shouldn't have any reason to,
ReplyDeleteBrian Moore
Really Brian? Are you trying to make it sound like people "old women" made up lies about you and that's why you left? Come on!
DeleteThat's not why I left, I left because I wanted to go to heaven! However the people in the church women or not did not spare me in the rumor department! I left because I was being lied to! They told me that all I've got to do is get my good works in "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast" Ephesians 2:8,9 and when I would ask about baptism I would get a response like "what about the theif on the cross? Do you think that he was baptized?" "for where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives. Therefore even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood." Hebrews 9:16-18. Now if this is true how come it isn't being taught or of all of the men who have supposedly been in the word there whole lives no one stands up for truth?!? We will just let the word of God speak for itself!
DeleteBrian Moore
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!
DeleteWhy don't you tell me why Brian left. Was it to get into Jesus because he could not out there. Was it to take part in the supper. Was it to answer the call for Jesus. Was it because all the love and kindness he was showen after his father died. Was it from all the support he recived. Oh really come on why don't you tell everyone why he left if you can judge another man.
DeleteWhatever Nick. why don't you stop telling Brian what to write.
DeleteHaha! I have no clue if that was Nick or not, but he didn't tell me what to write. Those are my honest opinions on the church members, but it does say in there the truth would be maligned, and that people would have a form of godliness, but whatever I might as well be talking to the wall
DeleteBrian Moore
Well Suzanne you are right about one thing you wrote.YOU ARE GOING TO HELL :)
ReplyDeleteLike I said before the brave Annonymous followers, leave her alone, you have no idea weather she is going to hell or not! You followers should be more concerned with your own salvation, "Jesus answered, truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" John 3:5 :p
DeleteBrian Moore
I think you missed the sarcasm.
DeleteOops sorry, my bad!
DeletePeople in this church tell other people they are going to hell and it happens often. When someone goes to a doctor, they may be told they are going to hell, etc. It happens frequently and that is why the sarcasm was missed.
DeleteMy grandmother warned me that my husband was taking my crown when we decided to no longer sing and attend meetings. In other words, I was told I was going to hell. Some people (not meaning to generalize the whole congregation) get around using the word Hell, and saying things like my grandma did. Funny thing, I didn't have a crown for anyone to take, at the time, and no one can take your salvation, because no one can do anything to earn it. It's a free gift, and you're name's written in the book of life once you accept that free gift...in sharpie, if you will...so it can't be erased. If you've not accepted the free gift of salvation, then your name won't be in the book, therefore, you will not have eternal life, and therefore, will go to Hell. That is what sends a soul to Hell, not leaving a meeting.
Deletetry to remember not everyone that comments here belong to that church in Oregon
ReplyDeleteOh religious debates. What a shame. In fact, shame on you!! Ya know, I've been a part of many faiths, Catholic, Presbyterian, Methodist, charismatic non-denominational. I'm not a religion jumper, I was a child left to their decisions. I learned a lot.. Hey folks, any of you recall Jesus' "greatest commandment"?
ReplyDeleteMay we all take a moment to breathe. I know I had to. I can feel so much bitternees.Maybe because I too am a bit bitter myself. My Father, was indeed kicked out of the church. Not only kicked out, he was rebuked from the pulpit, by Walter White himself. I was raised in The OCFOC as a child. I was 12, almost 13 when we left. We however, were not kicked out. We were shunned. People treated us like we had the pox. I use to dream when I was younger, of trying to open OCFOC'S eyes. I am old enough to know now, that no matter how much it hurt, as long as people are under that doctren, they are going to defend themselves. It is not worth fighting with them. Unless you want a headache.;)
ReplyDeleteDea Smith Miller
It may not be something worth fighting about but it is always worth defending the gospel, that you are saved by grace, not works. Most there believe you are saved by works not grace, they have it backwards. If the grace message sinks in that is when the real change will happen.
DeleteEx-followers are great revisionist's.
ReplyDeleteIs it possible that ex-followers see things differently now that their eyes have been opened to what the "church" really was?
DeleteIt's no use trying to play that game with them, many have tried, it does say "He that has ears to hear let him hear" that implies that some people just aren't capable of hearing the voice of there Lord, a person could sit down all night and explain exactly how they are being afflicted and lied to, explain how the powers that be work and they still wouldn't understand or they would be offended, you could give them every reason not to go out there biblically and they would still justify it in they're minds, there are two kinds of people out there.. The pro church folks and the "anti" I'm so much different than everyone else folks, all in all your the same deceived person! Oh but your so much different than so and so whose hand you just shook, the only difference between the two is the "anti" church people are to afraid to give things up to serve Christ! :-)
DeleteBrian Moore
You're right Brian, that's hitting the nail on the head right there! I had extensive conversations with your mom when we lived in Idaho, and was so sad to know she got sucked in the other way once your dad passed. I had so much hope for seeing her getting her kids free from there, and I know it can still happen, I don't want to discourage you :) But you're right, unless their eyes are opened to the truth, (seeing differently) and hearing the Lord's calling, they won't accept. I was away from there for 3 years and still wouldn't fully accept His gift, but then, once I couldn't prove His word wrong, I did. God works in the hearts of those that want to live for Him, and want to serve Him. He chooses us, and lets us hear and see. It's all through Jesus. Keep in the word and be strong in your faith Brian!
DeleteBrian, there is a hope for them yet, not all, but some. If there was no use in talking about the truth, then no one would be leaving to seek it. They are, and there is hope. If they can let go of their preconceived notions of what a church should look and sound like, then they can accept the gift of life. Not to accept false doctrines, but I'm sure it was a culture shock for you to enter another church for the first time.
DeleteHaha well not really, when I was a young lad I went to the Grant's Pass Follower church and a few others so I had an idea, that's what actually got me... In the back of my mind it was always remember back then? Remember how you used to read the bible and take it for how it is? It might say that it was kind of a wake up reading my notes from when I was just a young kid (in the back of my bible) what kind of twelve year old reads out of the book of Isaiah? Writes down Isaiah 52? For you were sold for nothing and you will be redeemed without money, I'll tell you what kind of kid, one who was led by the Holy Spiirt! It started at a young age for me, and thank God for it! Praise him that he got me out of such an awful place and provided more than i could imagine! Praise the Lord God of hosts!
DeleteBrian Moore
Are you taliking about: church of the first born (aka) "the general assembly and church of the first born" I see no need to be elliptical.
DeleteNo I was never really sure what the name was I was under the assumption that it was a Followers of Christ church but I could be mistaken.
DeleteI can say for sure that the FOC church in Idaho expells members. My brother was asked by an elder less than a year ago to quit attending church after he went to a Dr.
DeleteAs for divorce the Idaho church taught the only reason for divorce was unwarrented abuse. Members were not discouraged from divorcing worldly spouses.
As for preachers a former OC member has appointed himself preacher and starting a new church in Idaho. They still have religious exemption laws on medical child abuse.