Sunday, September 23, 2012

What Is A Worldly Person?


Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

1 John 2:15

In the Followers, we defined anyone who was not one of us as a “worldly person.” That included all other religions and denominations. They were worldly churches and worldly preachers.

But the term worldly person is used outside of the FOC. In most secular contexts, it is actually a compliment. It is someone who is wise in the ways of the world. An educated, well-travelled person.

Here is how dictionary.com defines worldly:

world·ly

[wurld-lee]  Show IPA adjective,world·li·er, world·li·est, adverb
adjective
1.of or pertaining to this world  as contrasted with heaven,spiritual life, etc.; earthy; 
   mundane.
2.experienced; knowing; sophisticated: the benefits of hisworldly wisdom.
3.devoted to, directed toward, or connected with the affairs,interests, or pleasures of this
   world.
4.of or pertaining to the people or laity; secular; neither ecclesiastical  nor religious
5.Obsolete . of, pertaining to, or existing on earth.

Churches outside of the FOC also use the term worldly person to refer to someone who dresses in fashionable clothes, has stylish hair, wears a lot of make-up, listens to popular, secular music, and is overly involved in the relevant popular culture.

I have recently heard some reports (yes, gossip) about how Shannon Hickman is getting along in prison. Because her case was high profile and covered in the news media and newspapers, the women prisoners had preconceived notions of how she would be when she arrived among their ranks. The thing that surprised the other prisoners the most was how “worldly” she was. What do you mean by worldly I asked.

“Well, she is into popular music, movies, and TV shows.” So, apparently the other prisoners were expecting someone who did not watch television or listen to music. Maybe they had in mind an Amish woman.

Despite their criticism of her, Shannon has made a lot of friends in prison, but she was a bit unsure at first. Her counselor, realizing that she wasn’t a hardened criminal had advised her to watch out for the other inmates saying, “If a woman comes to you and says she has your back, it means she wants to sleep with you.” Well, imagine her response when a friendly inmate said just that to her, with no intention of sleeping with her.

The inmates at Coffee Creek are required to work full-time jobs for very little pay. They usually receive $100-$200 per month for the full time work. Out of that money, they are required to purchase their own uniforms, shoes, make-up, haircuts, and personal items. Shannon’s chosen job is in the prison chapel. She is a clerk for the religious library.

So what makes someone a “worldly person” to you? Is it someone who gets medical care? Goes to a “worldly church/chapel services”? Is it a positive thing – an educated, world traveler and life-long learner? Is it someone who cares too much about worldly possessions? Or something else?

43 comments:

  1. Shannon is going to meet a lot of "worldly" people in prison. It is highly likely that she will not be a "FOC" when she leaves prison many years from now. Hopefully she will have the chance to come to believe that Jesus is the way and not that the FOC is the way. I hope and pray she is not suffering but finds comfort.

    The bible does not say not to love "worldly" people but it does say not to love the ways of the world. The FOC belief that everyone is worldly unless they are born into their church is wrong and unbiblical.



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  2. So this is Suzannes responce to someone saying that she "jumped the shark" and the foc have lost intrest in her blog. C'mon suzi, how stupid do you think we are? This is just another attempt at starting a heated argument. You are an awfull person that needs to reexamin why your blog exists. like I said, this is just an atempt to get a foc member to get defensive and attack you just to stir the pot. I thought this was about you suzanne?

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    1. And you, sir, are an awful speller and a mean-spirited troll.

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    2. If this blog makes you that angry you should avoid reading it, or seek counseling.

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    3. And you have yet again proven that they haven't lost intrest, by checking back every Sunday and Wednesday and posting your comment! You dummy :-)

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    4. I guess I'm not "worldly" enough. Had to look up what "Jump the Shark" means.

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  3. I have historically been nothing but supportive in the way I write about Shannon, and this is no exception. I chose to leave out any information that could cause people to judge her negatively.

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  4. It is not fair to bring up Shannons name and to predict her future when leaving prison. She does not fit in because she is wordly. She fits in because of her faith and kind spirit. You do not belong to FOC so you do not know what is actually going on with her, so for you to blog on her is not fair or morally right. When comments seem to slow, you seem to write a blog to poke or stir emotions all you can , that is obvious. If you were so sincere you would of discussed all religions and their each individual ways and practices. You have seemed of omitted how you actually were as a FOC. and we as FOC have not approached it. Please have the dignity to stop using names, and predictions. We have had the dignity to withhold how unstable you were as a teenager, your portrait of yourself has been edited to paint FOC the villians and you as the victim. SM was afraid of you, should we get into this? No because we have the dignity to let it die with the past, you have humiliated us, portrayed us as terrible things. We live quiet and peaceable as we can. We have never said we as a group are perfect. There is a much incorrect, but when walking through the door of any church, you will find that inperfection. We have the right to our faith, as anyone in this world has that right. Only god knows who is right and who is wrong. We should worship as we choose, and not have to pay for it by your constant pokes and blogs. You yourself said your book is done. Why not leave us alone? If you were blogged on for over a year, not always accurate you would grow weary and probobly angry we truly believe. If you were bitter you got your revenge, so please stop. It is also unfair that anyone can write anything on their mind about us angry or not, but when we as FOC get upset we are called trolls or mean spirited or all matter of things. Why is that unbalance of justice a joy to you Suzi? We as FOC want you to know that many loved and cared for your family, there were weddings, babies etc that care was shown. When you as a group left there was nothing anyone could do, we all knew how deep your hearts were not consistant with FOC, so there was not the outpouring support that was mentioned earlier. We are not villians as portayed here, why have you not ever touched on the good? Again, your book is complete, please move on to another topic, please

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    1. SM was afraid of me? Really? Maybe he was afraid that I would reveal what he was guilty of. If he was afraid of me, it was for the information I knew about him.

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    2. It regards your threats to him enough said be honest Suzi

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    3. I am honest (to a fault). The only threat I ever issued to him had to do with cutting my hair short - wow, that's scary. The only reason I'm not printing here what I know about him is out of respect for his children. It IS in my book, though I changed his name, I'm sure you'll be able to figure out who I'm talking about.

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    4. Be honest, I was his friend, I know your threats, your not being straight, he cared for you but then was scared of you,

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    5. You're misinformed. I can only say that the rumors he made up were to protect himself from any information I decided to share. I will not be goaded into telling these things now, since he's dead and it would only hurt his children.

      What kind of man would be scared of me? One who had something to hide.

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  5. Suzanne, why not try writing to Shannon and ask her if she wants to be talked about by you. I'm not saying you owe it to her, but you claim to have so much religion maybe it would be the right thing to do.

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    1. Sure, I was thinking about writing to her anyway. I'd like to help her get a Governor's pardon.

      Like I said, I left out the gossip that would make her look bad. I don't know how what I wrote on here is in any way negative.

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    2. You referred to her as "worldly". To the FOC that is a bad word.

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    3. No, I said that the prisoners used that word. That really surprised me. It made me wonder what the general population considers worldly to mean. I do know the difference in how the FOC defines that word and I have, on occasion, heard others use the word in a much different way.

      I have nothing but sympathy and empathy for Shannon.

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  6. She said that she acted worldly, compared to what the inmates expected. Of course that's going to be called a lie. It's not. What makes you think that no one sent her all of Shannon's nonsense letters? Maybe she knows a lot more about her than you think! Is the irony lost on anyone that Shannon ran to what's sure to be a catholic chapel for security and "work"? Not Judging her, just saying, in any other circumstance she would have turned her back and walked away from them. Why are you stupid enough to antagonize her, you play the victim and tell her to leave you alone. Take your own advise, let her tell her truth, stop lying, stop threatening her( that was thinly vailed) and stop bringing reproach on our brethren you moron!

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    1. Just as was stated before, whenever a FOC has any need or frustration we are now called a moron, there is nothing we can say to avoid your outbursts. We are guilty on all counts to you people, no judge trial or appeal. Guilty of all. But any matter of thing or charge can be made against us. Wake up and see this readers

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    2. Shannon is going through the most difficult time of her life, but she also has some peace and safety in the chapel. Thank goodness she was posted there as her job. The chapels in prisons are non-denominational. Different denominations hold services throughout the week there. So don't worry Followers! Shannon is not standing under a picture of the Virgin Mary being corrupted by Catholic beliefs. (sarcasm in case you can't detect it)

      Sadly, if she does change in prison, she will not be able to talk about it or show it in any way. She is supposed to serve her martyrdom in good spirits, and send encouraging letters back to the faithful of the church. Those that change their way of thinking in prison (or anywhere else) lose their families.

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  7. I have read this blog from the beginning and I can see clearly that Suzi had been overly kind in her representation of the FOC. She has taken a rediculous amount of abuse in the comments sections and yet has restrained from sinking to your hateful level.

    Wake up yourself and see what's in your own heart. You bring shame on your entire community to representing them the way you do.

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  8. In answer to your original question, Suzi, I have always thought of a 'worldly' person as a positive thing – an educated, world traveler and life-long learner, as you say above. I was very surprised that the FOC used the term differently when I first read about it on your blog.

    I also think that most intelligent readers will understand that your book is your own recollection of your time with the FOC. Strangely, all of those that make a habit of coming to your blog just to argue and try to put you down only reinforce any negative views anyone might have about the FOC. So, don't be discouraged by the hate you get on your blog. The more they comment, the more your book is going to sell.

    And although I don't know anything about the Hickman woman you talk about above except what I read in the papers, nothing you said about her above is derogatory or negative in any way.

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  9. The story of Shannon makes me cry. this blog made me cry when i read it. i guess i put it on the back burner of my mind because of how unfair it is that she has to be away from her baby and older child for so long. if you need help getting her a pardon let me know. I don't care if she wants to go back to church in oregon city. i think she did not do anything that would warrant her being in prison. if someone has to pay let her husband stay there. i have nothing against him but her kids need her. our prisons should be for the real criminals. my heart breaks for shannon and dale and their children. if you need signatures or whatever post it on here and lets help that woman go home to her babies.

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    1. Actually, Shannon and Dale's parents should be in jail right beside them. Too bad bystanders are not punished in Oregon for supporting and encouraging not getting medical help for dying children.

      Shannon has had submission to the male pushed into her head from infancy, her family more than most. It is standard doctrine in the church. In every decision, if she couldn't get a hold of her husband, she would be expected to call her dad or his dad to be told what to do.

      If you can add it to your book Suzanne, please mention how on the printed wedding napkins and keepsake frames, the man's name has to go first to show who is in charge.

      At the first "Worldly" wedding I attended, I was late rising for the bride's entrance, at Follower weddings, the bride is given no such honor. They of all girls now a days should have it, most all are virgins when they walk down the aisle.

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    2. How can there be no cop ability for parents, or clergy standing by( or encouraging) a crime?

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  10. While very sad indeed about dale and Shannon. People are acting like they are young chrildren. They are old enough to be married, have an older child, the death of there second child, another child and then a trial, and then start to serve out there jail sentience. Theses two are not young chrildren. But I do believe that they are products of there environments. As an earlier poster said it is to bad that MW. KW & PH TH are not setting in prison with them. These young adults,I believe actted how thier parents wanted them to act. Again I believe that these young adults are products of there enviroments. Int the FOC you are worried of how others view you and how you will be excepted. These two young adults given time away from thier enviroment that they was brought up in, as hard as it might be for them and there two chrildren. Might just be the best thing that ever happened to them. It might just be the first time that one thinks for ones self. One might be able to start putting time into putting the puzzle of GOD together. I am sure that they have been given a bible and I am sure that they have had time to read it. Now with out the enfolence of there family friends to pollute ones mind. They might just get a Romans 8:28 experience. Sad as it may be these people and all of there adult friends and family packed that house it was standing room only. I know this for a fact. Stood by and did not call for medical help because that's how they were raised. This prison sentience will be very difficult on all mentioned. But it will be the first time that dale and Shannon will not have to please there families,friends, and others. They will have to lean on God. If they are not careful they just might find him. God gives us a few promises through out the bible. Ask, knock, and seek. Is one of them. With out the pressure of the brethren they just might find Gods open arms, his hand of forgiveness. As hard as this sentience is. It is possible that this might be the best experience in there life. Just something to chew over.

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  11. So when can we get your book?

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  12. Soon I hope. It's starting to get cold at night and I plan on useing it to light my fireplace. Should work good, the pages will light on fire without matches.

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    1. Oh so you do plan on buying the book. Great way to support Suzi.

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    2. Anon 8:43, that's a good one! Is that how the FOC bibles disappeared? A cold winter?

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    3. HAHA! No they just sit on a dusty coffee table! I had to hold back my laughter as a follower struggled to locate Titus, good thing I didn't say Habakkuk, they would've probably asked me what bible I was reading! Lol

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  13. You are such a tard Brian!

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  14. I don't know who you are Mr. Anonymous and I'm not going to tell you who I am. I'll let you know that I left almost 7 years ago at the age of 28. Suzy has every right to blog about whatever she wants according to the first amendment. Alot of what she says is not far from the truth if not right on the money. You say she was an "unstable" teenager. Well that's in the past and she's moved on to a good life. As for me, I wasn't an unstable teenager. I did everything I could to make people happy and be accepted as I grew up. But instead all I received were insults everyday of my life because of something my father did when I was young. I am not my father and didn't deserve to be treated the way I was. No individual should be judged by their parents actions. That isn't very Christian like as far as I'm concerned. Shunning your children and turning your back on them when they make a decision like leaving that church are not the actions of a true Christian. It is not how Jesus would act. I don't live a bad life. I'm not doing drugs or sleeping around or whatever else you people believe we do once we leave. The first amendment is very powerful and I'm sure Suzy will continue to blog about whatever is on her mind. So just deal with it or stop reading them if you don't like it.

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  15. In my opinion only, a worldy person can have two different connotations.

    In one respect, it is someone who is well educated to the events and locations of our world.

    In another aspect it is one trapped by the current ideologies of the world. What appears as wisdom to the current majority, will shift at some future time. This has happened over and over again for thousands of years.

    As for the continuous battle over the teachings of the Bible, I choose one very simple passage found in 1 Thessalonians 4:11-12

    "Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you, so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody."

    Simple lessons are sometimes overlooked as we attempt to be worldly.

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    1. There is another meaning of the word “worldly” that might better fit the forum. It’s not just someone who is educated, or someone who buys into ideologies of this world, but someone who cares only about what this world has to offer.

      Simply put, a worldly person cares for the things of this world and has no desire for the things of the kingdom of God. They have no fear of God because they either, see themselves as good people, or have made up their own rules in order to make sense of their own sinful desires.

      It doesn’t matter if someone goes to church, or if they do whatever feels good, both are lost apart from the grace of God. A worldly person is someone who is sick, but thinks’ they are healthy. The healthy do not need a physician.

      Jesus came to call sinners to repentance, not good people and not those whose hearts are fixed on what they can get in this world.

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  16. in FOC Worldly means not of gods flock.

    Come out from the world and be separate ....and the world will hate you because you hear my voice.

    doesn't mean well traveled, smart, or anything like that to them it means, you are not of Gods chosen people.

    When I was a kid in FOC, i coudnt understand how come the girl at school was going to hell because she was a nicer more careing and decent human being than i considered myself to be. She is of the world.... mom would tell me, she would say some beleive that there might be a lesser hell for them, something not so fire and brimstone but, they had no chance at everlasting life.

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    1. In FOC worldly means you do not go the their church in Oregon City. If you are born into the church then FOC say you are God's elect. To them people born there have a chance at being saved and everyone else is worldly and doomed.

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  17. How do you decide that another group of believers is wrong? Unless you decide that they are liars before you ever speak to them. I think it's human nature to assume the worst, but why not assume the best in people until they prove you wrong?

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    1. well...let's see: haven't most mainstream Christians decided that Mormons, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists are wrong?

      Just playing devil's advocate here.

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  18. All of those are completely seperate from Christianity. Aside from Jews, Christians bickering is like a sunrise making fun of a sunset. Muslim for example is a whole different animal.

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  19. would you please post how to write to shannon in prison? I think you have before but would you do so again? thanks.

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    1. Shannon Hickman
      SID #18574763
      Coffee Creek Correctional Facility
      24499 SW Grahams Ferry Road
      Wilsonville, OR 97070

      Do not send fancy envelopes or cards because they might not pass inspection. Just plain envelopes and paper. you can send up to ten photographs with your letter.

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